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Communication with State Inspection Official:
E-mail Response to Dan T Jones

Construction Trades Investigations
Utah State Division of Occupational and Professional Licensing

Please read by beginning first at the top with David Conrads' Thur 5/15/08 7:02 PM, reasonable final answer, query and challenge in his dialog exchange that was commenced earlier that day by Dan Jones, Utah State Inspection Licensing Supervisor.

To understand the initiation and flow of the dialog in the rest of this page, as with most email programs, the string of communication herein is presented in reverse order, with the first email
(initiating the dialog) from Dan Jones posted at the bottom, and the last (as closure) from David Conrad, at the top. So to understand the discussion that provoked this final culpability probing statement and question from the harmed infant Daniel's father, David Conrad, in the order that it occurred, you can scroll to bottom and read each subsequent letter, from bottom to top, which all culminated with this last important charge, challenge and common-sense question to the State about its attitude and about its duty to its people!

Mr Jones' first email (at bottom), as he claims, was provoked by my (Thomas Rodgers) visit to him in his State office, wherein I flagged him of this family's poisoning event, showed him the original evidence, photos, videos and test data (which he evasively labels as "anecdotal", then later says is sufficient in court, and that the victim and I should fix the problem -- and that we
citizens (the victim and his unpaid friend), David and I, should notify everyone and fix everyone else's problem too. -- So please tell us what is Dan Jones' and his Department's duty and paychecks for?). I had asked him to see the information presented on the website, and asked him who was responsible. (He had also received direct copies of additional information, including privileged documents: "Carbon Monoxide Cover-up" and "Supplement to CO Cover-up" [Medical Comment by T L Rodgers] from the Father, David Conrad.) -- see all publicly viewable documents linked at "Subsequent documents submitted by the Father" on main web site. -- TLR 6/17/08

From:    Dave Conrad (dconrad000@hotmail.com)
Sent:    Thu 5/15/08 7:02 PM
To:     dantjones@utah.gov
Cc:     wholman@utah.gov; pmurphy@utah.gov; rford@utah.gov; tom@tomrodgers.org

...one more thing, Dan.  The Clay Christiansen/Thaxton families' young son and grandson was killed by a home that was passed off by a state trained, licensed and certified inspector as being safe; the house continued to damage other family members -- almost killed another child; the State of Utah blamed the family; The State of Utah and its legal system and Primary Children’s put both families through years of hell, and bled both families dry financially to the point of financial ruin -- and the family still has not been legally exonerated for what the State of Utah's erroneous safety inspection did to their kids.
see website:  http://www.familyvsstate.org
In fairness, what do you think the state of Utah ought to do about that?

From: dconrad000@hotmail.com
To: dantjones@utah.gov
CC: wholman@utah.gov; pmurphy@utah.gov; rford@utah.gov; tom@tomrodgers.org
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:16:11 -0600

...and one more thing, Dan...Mark Shurtleff has a different position than you on this.  At the Republican Convention on Saturday, he told Tom that there should be no debate as to who has responsibility -- The Feds or the State...when it comes to protecting citizens of Utah, the State of Utah has the responsibility -- as far as he is concerned (I am paraphrasing).
That is not only the correct and responsible position to take...and it is also one which will be much more favorably received by the citizens of Utah when portrayed by the media...rather than "it is not our jurisdiction".


From: dconrad000@hotmail.com
To: dantjones@utah.gov
CC: pmurphy@utah.gov; rford@utah.gov; tom@tomrodgers.org
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 16:48:36 -0600

Oh, I see, Dan...so you are ok with the State of Utah trained, licensed and certified inspectors passing blatantly dangerous homes off as being safe -- homes that have been causing sickness and death -- i.e. the Christiansen/Thaxton case?...and now it's my job to go around and identify and correct all those State of Utah errors affecting all those families.  Hey Dan, I'm using all my time just trying to get the State of Utah (DCFS) off my back -- who has blamed me for the harm they caused to our child...I barely have time for that, let alone to go around and undo all the problems for all the other families the State of Utah has caused with their errors.
If I just had the state of Utah off my back -- and the entire public that has been placed in harms way were sufficiently warned, I would be happy with that -- even though the state of Utah's error has cost our family considerable in damages, expenditures, and trouble.
...at least we are trying to get the word out, so people that have been placed in harms way by these erroneous state inspections can protect themselves.
Dan, the family that lived here before ours was damaged -- without ever knowing they had a CO problem -- our family was damaged.  There are hundreds if not thousands of homes in Utah with the same dangerous configuration as ours, with families that think they are safe because a state licensed inspector passed their home off as being safe.  I hope that you will soon begin to get the big picture, Dan.  This is huge...a lot of people are being hurt.
I am not blaming you personally, Dan...but the State of Utah shares equal blame with the Feds on all the dangerous homes that have been passed off as safe...and the State of Utah needs to own up to that, and use its resources in the best way that it can to protect its Utah citizens from the further harm that could come from those erroneous state certified inspections.


From:    Daniel Jones (dantjones@utah.gov)
Sent:    Thu 5/15/08 3:48 PM
To:     Dave Conrad (dconrad000@hotmail.com)
Mr. Conrad I am not looking for a email fight. I explained to you
the Division's position, that has not changed. When I discovered a
Carbon Monoxide leak in my home- I fixed it- I didn't run around
claiming some sense of entitlement, blaming everybody else. I did not
wait for somebody from the government to come make my home safe for my
family. I found out the things that had to be done and I fixed them.
If this combination of venting an cold air returns are creating a big a
hazard as you contend you should be advising these home owners to make
immediate repairs. My heating and insulation advisor told me this was
a very easy, inexpensive repair. In my career as a Police Officer I
investigated carbon monoxide deaths and injuries so I have seen first
hand what can happen. I am not unaware to the potential hazards of
carbon monoxide.
One more thing, do not threaten or blame me for killing anybody again.
My Group of investigators have done far more to safe guard the
citizens of this State than you or your group. I wish to remind you the
States have no jurisdiction over the federal government unless
specifically expressed. I have no jurisdiction in this matter I will do
what I can do and what I have been advised to do.

From:    Dave Conrad (dconrad000@hotmail.com)
Sent:    Thu 5/15/08 2:49 PM
To:     Daniel Jones (dantjones@utah.gov)
Cc:     pmurphy@utah.gov; rford@utah.gov; tom@tomrodgers.org

Dan, the snow choke off simulation of the combustion air return with just 9 inches of snow had the carbon monoxide levels spiking to 200 parts per million (from the usual 2-5 parts per million).  That is a test that can be duplicated consistently over and over again.  Tom did the test and has the data on that (see the website www.danielinthelionsden.us ).
If you think it is safe to have a fresh air adder that close to the furnace and hot water exhaust flues -- and the flues that short and stubby, easily choked off by snow -- you are sadly mistaken.  Even without the exponential increase in CO levels brought about by snow-choke off of the combustion air return -- do you think it healthy to have those exhausts circulating back into the home?
Our home was made safe by the sealing off of the fresh air adder port, so that the furnace cannot draw the contaminated air in from the roof.  However, we need to keep windows cracked when running the furnace or AC, to supplant the breathed off carbon dioxide build up.  It is safe, but that is not a permanent fix -- which will be much more costly than just sealing off the fresh air adder port.
Shifting blame to the Federal Government, because it is a Hud certified home is like saying:
"...well these flues are way too short and will get choked off with snow and emit lethal levels of CO...and those lethal fumes going down the fresh air adder that is only 3 1/2 feet away is definitely dangerous...but oh, well...if it kills the family or their baby it's not our fault, because there are Hud tags on the home...so we'll just go ahead and pass this off as safe -- even though we are supposed to be protecting the Utah public -- because we can always blame it on the Feds."
Is that the position you want to take, Dan?
The State of Utah shares equal blame.
...and Dan, the State of Utah has hundreds of these homes with this exact configuration that the State of Utah has been passing off as safe for its citizens for years -- with this blatantly dangerous configuration -- that is obvious to anyone who is knowledgeable about furnace installations.
(Tom please get a copy of (Former) Senator Parley Hellewell's report to Dan)
Dan, I think you’d better begin to take this matter more seriously -- and think about protecting the public, instead of finding a way to divest yourself and the state of Utah from blame.
Dave Conrad


From:    Daniel Jones (dantjones@utah.gov)
Sent:    Thu 5/15/08 1:51 PM
To:     Dave Conrad (dconrad000@hotmail.com)
Cc:     Paul Murphy (PMURPHY@utah.gov); Ross Ford (RFORD@utah.gov)
Dear Mr. Conrad- I discussed Mr. Tom Rodgers contention with our
contract engineer. The State engineer advised me of some avenues to
pursue in this matter. The Division of Occupational and Professional
Licensing (Division) is not convinced that this is an public health and
safety issue, however in the interest of public safety we are willing to
take a cursory look at these allegations. I will again restate the
Divisions position, these homes are Federally inspected, the State of
Utah has no jurisdiction on these types of housing units.
The only evidence presented, has been anecdotal in nature. Nether your
nor Mr. Rogers has provided any empirical evidence of carbon monoxide
poisoning in any of these incidents. No verifiable carbon monoxide
parts per million counts in any of these homes has been offered to
support these claims. It seems to me the agenda is more about an
attack on a "traditional medical physician" than correcting any venting
problems in these homes. I find your comment of "(State of Utah induced
carbon monoxide poisoning) was the obvious cause of Daniel’s health
problem" offensive, slanderous and based on opinion rather than
I am also concerned about the unwillingness to pursue simple,
practical and inexpensive modifications to these vents that would
mitigate any potential carbon monoxide contamination. Mr. Rodgers
position of not "wanting to destroy any evidence" when film and written
documentation is accepted by the courts. The resistance to repairs does
a great disservice to those you are claiming to help. This asks the
question if these homes are so dangerous why are you pursuing some
national debate on the retaliative danger of these vents.
If you wish the Division to pursue this matter, you or Mr. Rodgers will
have to provide me with the following information.
1. Name, address and phone number of the owners of these homes. (State
of Utah only)
2. Name of the manufacture and the date the home was manufactured
2. The dealer that sold the home.
3. The name of the licensed contractor who preformed the
I am asking for this information be presented to me within 30 Days,
from to days date. Thank you
Daniel T. Jones, Supervisor
Construction Trades Investigations
Division of Occupational and Professional Licensing
Phone 801-530-6721
email dantjones@utah.gov

(EMailResponseToDanJones.doc - original in MSWord)
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